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One of the big obstacles for me in running #rpg systems that don't allow quickly rolling up characters is the invest players have to commit to a game, they don't know anything about. And playing with pregens often ends up with them wanting to run along with their pregen charakter.

So I am making a choice up front for them. I don't see a way out of this as most of my players love playing at the table but are too busy investing more time into a game than that.

#Cypher System is one of these contenders that I'd love to bring to the table, but where character creation is a central part of the player's game experience I think.

So #osr / #nsr systems are what I fall back to, especially when running open tables or one shots. And that's where they really do shine. But they are a different kind of game in that regard.

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fritzlolpro , @fritzlolpro@mastodon.social
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@ckeen regarding complex char generation it looks like char generation becomes the game itself. If it took 2 hours to make a character then it will later affect the game as the gm and the player would suffer a lot from this character's death.
Probably mothership and mork borg have better approach